http://www.listen2yourgut.com/blog/dangers-of-vegetarianism-vegan-long-term/

And you are very rare not to have any tooth decay, even as a vegetarian. Here’s another blog post where raw food vegetarians are detailing the ongoing problems they have with tooth decay:

http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/01/24/dental-drama-tooth-problems-on-the-raw-diet-part-1/

I think it’s safe to say you are an anomaly, but you have obviously found the best regimen for your unique body, so keep it up! Thanks for sharing.

When I was first put onto solid food as a baby, anything that contained meat or fish I would spit out. I wanted vegetable products only. My mother reckoned I was born vegetarian, my father was insistent on not having a daughter who be vegetarian and was forced to eat meat! In my later years I recall picking at my food would eat all the vegetables on my plate and barely touched the meat but would eat it if was disguised in sauces like say in spaghetti bolognaise but my favorite food as a child was always that without meat like macaroni cheese and salads. By the time I was 10 yrs I developed chronic bowel pain… so bad it made me constipated and would vomit, had to have 1 to 2 days off school each time this occurred (regularly). The doctors began tests, even had a barium enima age 11, nothing found, the pains continued for years, I was diagnosed with IBS and given pain killers. Pain killers helped but did not cure. My Dad left our family when I turned 15yrs old and I began to eat what I enjoyed, cutting out most meat and fish but had been brainwashed by him to believe that it was a necessary part of my diet. So I ate some ham, mince, chicken and breaded fish…. plenty veg and fruit, milk and milk products and bread. The chronic pains continued. By the time I reached 19 yrs old I I began working with some people in a bakery food outlet to find that my colleagues were all vegetarian. To my surprise I realized that it were possible to be veggie and healthy, unlike my father had taught me years before. I in an instant stopped eating meat and fish products completely. Since that time I have never had the so called IBS issue!!!!!! I talked to my new doctor about this and she said it could be that an enzyme that breaks down meat and fish is missing from my gut hence all the chronic pain, discomfort and severe constipation for years! I have never looked back… no medication, healthy, fit and free from pain. My teeth are healthy as explained earlier too, and my weight is ideal… at age 39 with my gut and teeth doing well, I do wonder whether meat has anything to do with teeth issues? I also do not look 39 and am mistaken for my late twenties frequently. I do hope all this helps someone out there with teeth and or gut issues… I have heard too that teeth can repair themselves, tea tree oil dabbed onto decay does miracles… my canine teeth and not as others appear… rounded completely. Guess I was born this way! Evolution at it’s best. Here is a very interesting science article regarding teeth, gut and meat… best wishes in your continued quest regarding tooth decay. Tara
http://www.waoy.org/26.html

I am now 39yrs old, I am a European female. I have zero cavities, therefore no fillings, healthy white teeth and gums, free from any signs of disease or tooth decay.

I drink black tea daily with 3 teaspoons of white sugar and milk in it and have done since I was 7 yrs old! I have approx. 6 cups a day. I drink plenty of full fat whole milk and have done all of my life. Consume a lot of chocolate and strawberry milkshakes! I eat plenty of cheese, fresh vegetables and some fruit like bananas, strawberries. I enjoy drinking pure apple juice. My diet is Vegetarian. I do not drink alcohol but do smoke cigarettes and have done since I was age 15. I have brushed my teeth EVERYDAY myself since 5yrs old, once a day with colgate toothpaste.

I share this information with you in the hope that it may help in your quest.
Everyone always comments on my smile saying I have a beautiful one. No candy, brush daily, lots of milk!

Dr. Mercola has a NT test which determines a person’s optional diet based on genetics. This explains why some people do well on a given diet while another does poorly. The nutritional types (veggie, mixed, and protein) determines the caloric ratio of the diet. Have you heard of it before?
http://nutritionaltyping.mercola.com/PreTest.aspx

I’m wondering is it possible to avoid jaw bone loss associated with tooth loss without implants by following a healthy diet? Some people even say it is better to keep the root. Could thyroid issues also cause tooth decay since thyroxine affects the direction of fluid in dentin tubules?

What about a removable bridge?

What about a porcelain tooth that you just glue into place when you feel the need, or when you go out?

I lost a tooth in the middle of my mouth after the birth of my third child (my husband lost the exact same tooth on the other side of his mouth a few months before me – yes, we were both very stressed!) and I have kept it. I’m going to try filing the root down and then glueing it into place for photos or special occasions. I’m thinking denture adhesive should work and may be okay for short periods….

And then I found this:

http://jdr.sagepub.com/content/82/4/253.full

Which has interesting info on Dr. Albert Schatz and his theory, but also leads us deeper into the variables that may be at work in dental caries (tooth decay).

I also find it interesting the link Larmas makes between tooth decay and osteoporosis – which was my immediate intuitive line of inquiry a few years ago. Funnily enough, my brother is a medical geneticist whose specialty is….. osteoporosis! So I had spent some time going over theories with him and also immediately looked at which minerals are essential for rebuilding bones and could we apply that to teeth? However, it was not until recently that I found a form (or delivery system) of these minerals that were able to “get into” the teeth. You can read about that here:

http://www.listen2yourgut.com/blog/nanoparticle-minerals-heal-tooth-decay-and-osteoporosis/

On another note, this study also seems pretty indicative of the role of sugar in the process:

http://www.aobjournal.com/article/S0003-9969%2899%2900138-7/abstract

http://www.albertschatzphd.com/?cat=articles&subcat=proteolysis&itemnum=001

(click on Proteolysis-Chelation)

Dr. Schatz was also the discoverer of streptomycin and a Nobel prize winner.

Animals and humans treated with LIPUS regrew teeth and increased bone density of their jaws equivalent to those of teenagers. Another benefit of regrowing teeth is that mercury fillings and other metal restorations can be removed without the risk of exposure and the cost although tooth extractions can be traumatizing even if told they will regrow. They were expected to be in the market by late 2009 but unfortunately, they haven’t yet.

lipus.org
http://hubpages.com/hub/Regrow-Teeth
http://ragingdebate.com/health/gel-makes-teeth-self-repair-1
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/06/060628234304.htm

Oh how I weep for the victimized twin! I thank god everyday that I don’t have such a one to be constantly compared to… but your point is fascinating. It is sort of a chicken and an egg query – people with misaligned teeth and such have a harder time keeping them free of bugs and gum disease as they tend to provide niches that are hard to reach and provide a perfect breeding ground. Then again, this problem may be due to poor nutrition or other such deficiency. Now almost every disorder – from heart disease to diabetes is linked to poor teeth, periodontal disease or cavities. The mouth – being the opening of our large hole running through the body – is essentially the welcoming mat for both pathogenic and friendly bugs. Thus, it makes perfect sense that it would set the stage for problems further down the opening. This leads to the question of whether fixing problems with your oral cavity is the first step to controlling or healing your gut problems. I think that is a very novel hypothesis.

NO DECAY

For the first time in 11 years!!!

Needless to say, my kids are ecstatic and can’t wait for their checkup next month.

Allrighty, now that we’ve got that out of the way. Yes, the IBD link makes perfect sense and fits in nicely with the the other correlations the med literature has found between IBD and sugar consumption, refined carb consumption etc. And don’t dietary habits tend to run in families?

But here’s something else to sink your teeth into: I just read an article in my Weston Price Journal – oh hang on, I’ve found it online for you:

http://www.westonaprice.org/From-Attention-Deficit-to-Sleep-Apnea.html

Have a read through that, because what I’m wondering now is: what’s the correlation between IBD and maloclusions, mouth breathing and orthodontic work (braces)? What do you think?

And yes, I was malnourished from a low-nutrient diet in utero onwards, had 10 mercury amalgam fillings by age 14, had 4 bicuspids removed at 18 and wore braces for 3 years – I was just like the twin in the top set of photos (see Twin Study in the article).

Your dental caries mystery had stuck at the back of my mind – and when I heard another woman with Crohn’s lamenting her extensive dental work – and how she thought it must be genetic as this appeared to be a familial trait, it motivated me to do a quick search to see whether there was any anecdotal evidence suggesting a relationship between those who have gut problems like Crohn’s and a problem with tooth decay. And what do you know – there is indeed a real correlation. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6588344
Incidentally, the relative I have with Crohn’s had the most awful teeth as a youngster, and the extensive diet of apple juice and rubber sucker was blamed. It seems that the same changes in immune function that predisposes one to inflammatory gut problems are at play for problems with tooth decay – which apparently has a lot to do also with inflammation. Not sure whether knowing this helps at all with the remedy.

Having them take HCL DID help. I read and believe (Campbell’s book) that my children were born with weak stomach acid. How I understand it (Read Bee’s site) if you are low in HCL your other enzymes don’t kick in hence you do not absorb all that expensive, wonderful nutrition you put in the body.
It also seems to matter what blood type you are I don’t buy all the blood type diet hype but O’s do seem to have more HCL naturally so better digestion so absorb nutrients better. I have my own children A’s and O’s to attest to that.
I also agree with another post. You must get a premier cod liver oil. We take Green Pastures fermented clo now and it does seem to make a difference for a lot of people.
I am interested how your last checkup went?.
Would love to share more if you have any questions. I know how awful if feels when you try to do your best for your children and nothing seems to help.
Shari

I remember reading (maybe it was Mr Judd’s work) that it takes about 26 rinses to get all the toothpaste (flouride type) off your teeth; that your teeth have to really be clean in order to best absorb the calcium and phosphorus for remineralization.

I have also read of some mothers who’ve been advised by dentists that do homeopathic stuff to take calcarea flourica and calcarea phosphorica cell salts for rebuilding dentin (pulp?) and enamel.

But you make a salient point, if we solved any of these health issues an entire profession would be virtually out of business.

~Claire

Have you tried Dr. Ellie’s 3 rinse method? Also, she says that it would take 60 grams of xylitol a day before it would be considered excessive – 10 x her recommendation. I use Tooth Soap and Tooth Swish from toothsoap.com instead of Crest toothpaste, and Zellies mints/granular packets thoughout the day. Also, you may want to try OraMD instead of Act at night. If you don’ t use Act, then you don’t need Listerine. Her system is based on the chemistry of Closys, regular Crest toothpaste, regular Listerine followed by Act and NOT rinsing with water between steps.

I’m surprised Dr. Ellie positions herself as a “Holistic Dentist” since she advocates flouride treatment and dental care products that contain lots of chemicals and artificial ingredients. At any rate, thanks for the referral as it was interesting to see her approach. The fact that she focuses on inducing alkalinity in the mouth means that we may really be on the right track with the oral nanoparticle mineral soaking.

My other main question with Dr. Ellie’s protocols is what effect does that much Xylitol have on the gut flora? I have posted that question on her blog and asked if she also has any references for further info on this issue. That’s the main reason I don’t think people should consume too much Xylitol. Well, we’ll see what she says…

You know, I think someone should have figured out how to grow new teeth by this time – I mean sharks can do it. Why isn’t someone researching that relentlessly, because that would really solve all our problems. I wonder if it’s a money issue…i.e. what would happen to the revenue from all these dental products and dental procedures if they were all rendered unnecessary? Who knows.

There is a holistic dentist who now advocates a particular regime for dental care, her name is Dr. Ellie (if you do a search with the words “ask dr. ellie” you’ll find her web site). She emailed back and forth with me numerous times and was so helpful. She has a book coming out about how to avoid the dentist (which is saying something, since she is a dentist)…Her stance is also that teeth CAN repair themselves. I think I have seen this in Weston Price info too; that you may still see discoloration but the tooth can rebuild in many cases. The reason I got in touch with her is because my daughter (now 6.5, was diagnosed at 2.5) has UC and many cavities.

For what it’s worth, on the EFT, I have read at least one case (I subscribe to the EFT newsletters) of a mother who did surrogate EFT for her son’s cavity(ies) and had measurable and surprising results! Also, when I was pregnant I read a book by Laura Shanley (a free/unassisted birth advocate) in which she talks about the power of our minds directing our experiences and as an example talked about how her mouth was riddled with cavities and much to her dentist’s surprise, was able to eliminate or reduce a number of her cavities…I know that will sound ridiculous to some, but stranger things have happened…

~Claire

There has been some talk about the concentration of sugars in juices themselves – where there is no fiber really. So just keep this in mind for the little guys. I don’t have children, so I can only give you this little bit of wisdom. Another thing I read in a raw food book – it’s not hard to de-mineralize quickly. I know you guys are not vegetarians – but maybe the little ones are ‘de-toxing’ from the veggie juices too quickly, and as a result – pulling minerals from their teeth – often the first place this shows up! Their bodies may just be too young for it? Just a thought — GOOD LUCK .

So aside from diet and bacterial balance, there must be some other key factor. What is it??

I’m certainly not saying we ignore diet as it is very important for a variety of reasons – including our dental health. And no, I have never advocated flouride usage. Even if you can argue that it hardens enamel, the whole-body ramifications (poisoning) are not worth it. What I am saying is there is some other factor at work here – and I really need to figure it out!

Whilst researching nanoparticle minerals on PubMed, I came across an interesting trial that mixed dental filling material with the minerals (in nanoparticle size) needed to build healthy teeth/bone. And then they used this mixture as the filling in the person’s tooth. And guess what? HUGE preventive effect against further decay.

So, my latest experiment is the kids and I are taking a Bone Support formula of nanoparticle minerals (www.worldhealthmall.com) just before bed. After brushing and flossing, we are holding them in our mouth and swishing around our teeth for as long as we can and then swallowing. These minerals also have a pH of 12, so nice from that angle as well – inducing alkalinity.

Due to their minute size, nanoparticle minerals do not require digestion and they penetrate directly and pretty much instantly into the cells.

We’ve only been doing this for 10 days, so too early to tell anything other than we all sleep more deeply and have not been waking to use the toilet in the night. I’ll post here again after our next dental checkup!

The only thing I can suggest is trying low carb. You may be surprised, with all those fruits you are juicing and grains you are eating (presumably- and any beans too?), and the milk (unless you ferment it), that the carbs really add up. I know at least fruits may seem natural, but if you think of what they call the “paleo-diet”, the diet we evolved to eat, fruits were really not that plentiful. They only came in season about once a year, and there were only a few kinds available in any given region. On top of that, they originally were small and often not that sweet (sometimes downright bitter). It is only through modern domestication that we have made many of them so sweet, much like how we made all the different breeds of dogs through selective breeding. And paleo people certainly didn’t juice.

I point to ancient Egypt as evidence, as described in Michael Eades’ “Protein Power” book. The ancient Egyptians had NO sugar, though they did have honey and lots of sweet fruits. They did NOT refine their flour, but did eat a ton of whole grain bread (and I assume it was naturally leavened, though maybe not sprouted). And yet they notoriously had some of the worst dental problems in the world- so bad, that their teeth were often rotted nubs by the time they were adults. They also had rampant obesity, high blood pressure, diabetes, and often died fairly young of heart attacks. They did have raw sheep’s cheese, and vegetables too, but didn’t eat much red meat. About the only factor (besides small lack of animal fats) you can point to that caused such dramatic degeneration is the amount of carbs in their diet.

I’m not sure how it works, that carbs would cause this effect. There is lots of things that go wrong with chronically elevated insulin, but I can’t think of why that would affect the teeth. It might be that we require more vitamins and minerals to process carbs- I know Vitamin C is one of them. Or maybe the carbs just displace other, animal based foods that we would otherwise be eating. It could be because our plant foods have less vitamins and minerals in them due to depleted topsoil (of course, wouldn’t that apply to the animal foods as well?). I honestly would have thought your kid’s teeth would’ve been fine, based on the fat soluble vitamins (you do eat meat, right?) and lack of sugar alone. We can point to the Swiss or Gaelics that Weston Price visited for which grains were a big part of their diet. (Notice fruits weren’t, however.) Probably some of the problem is genetic, because I know that I ate a terrible diet growing up (though relatively better than some), and I’ve never had a cavity.

Perhaps it’s the phytates in all the raw vegetables and whole grains. I know of one person, Barry Groves, who thinks it’s actually healthier to eat white bread than whole grain (see his well regarded book “Trick and Treat”). Of course, he doesn’t recommend either. Bran should really not eaten under any circumstances- I’m not sure if even soaking will neutralize the phytates in that case. But the raw vegetables might be a problem too- again with the juicing. Vegetables, even fruits, have historically been cooked- even salads with lettuce. Nearly every culture did it. All these phytates might be leaching minerals from the blood into the intestines. Then the blood would have to replenish by leeching minerals from the bones, which would explain the tooth decay. According to Barry Groves, vegetables aren’t that important anyway- this is a fairly modern notion. There’s not that many antioxidants in vegetables that you can actually absorb, and also your body is perfectly capable of making it’s own enzymes and antioxidants. Of course, more antioxidants are required to neutralize AGEs that are produced when your body burns blood sugar for fuel, instead of fats and ketones as it should be.

One more thing- have you tried a good Cod Liver Oil? As pointed out in the latest issue of “Wise Traditions” (the WAPF’s journal), milk, even raw, is not a really great source of the fat soluble vitamins, especially K, the “activator” for the other vitamins. The cows only produce it when they are eating quickly growing green grass, so it’s kind of an unreliable source. Meat, I believe, is a sure source of vitamin “everything”. Shrimp is especially high in A and D.

Anyways, sorry for the long post, but I’m just throwing out some ideas. And it’s tough to convince people that low carb is natural. First of all, they believe in the glycemic index, but honestly, every bit of starch you eat (or fructose) is going to end up as glucose in your blood rather quickly. And secondly, they believe that glucose is our cells’ one and only source of fuel- it isn’t, and never was in our hunter-gather days. And thirdly, we just like carbs so much- I’m still struggling with this myself. But maybe you should try it with your kids, if you are desperate enough. Fructose in particular is a sugar to avoid- Gary Taubes, author of the comprehensive “Good Calories, Bad Calories”, is aiming to write a book sometime solely on the harmful effects of fructose. Honey and maple syrup (and table sugar) all are at least 50% fructose. I don’t know how much you use, but think of the mainland Chinese- surprisingly, they live their whole lives without a desire for sweets. The children don’t feel deprived there. Even things like raisins and prunes add up surprisingly fast on the carb count. And also, if restrictions are piling up too much, I wouldn’t worry so much about buying organic, EMF radiation, or your kids’ emotions as a cause for the tooth decay. Lack of pesticides and EMF radiation did not help the Egyptians. I pay more attention to the BULK of what we put into us these days. Weston Price believed the teeth were a window into the health of the entire body, so I hope you are able to solve this problem.

Good luck, and I bookmarked your page. I actually want to start my own webpage soon, partly so I can back up all these claims I make. Michael Eades has an outstanding blog at: http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/.

And yes Penny, I know exactly what you mean about brushing their teeth for them – and your description of it shows you’re a Mum who’s actually had to do it! Day after day, no matter how tired, stressed, etc you all are. That’s a good tip about resting their head against the wall – I’ve been using my hand at the back of their head to steady them, but I think I like your idea better. I brushed my son’s teeth until he was nearly nine and my daughter’s until she was 6 – but then she is far more dexterous and focused. My three year old I’m still brushing.

And interesting too Ashley about the estrogen – being that I’ve been pregnant or breastfeeding for about 8 years solid, that makes more sense why every time I’ve been to the dentist I have a new cavity. Plus I’ve noticed that my saliva production is low.

Well now that I’m finished with all the childbearing, I’m having everything tested – stool, hair, saliva, hormones, etc. to get a good profile of where I’m at now and what needs balancing. I’m working with Jim Ehmke (who I’ve done a teleseminar and podcast with for JPT Wellness Circle) so am excited to see what shifts!

thanks again for the great feedback!
Jini