“Isn’t it curious that at this juncture in our culture’s evolution, we collectively believe Twinkies, Lucky Charms, and Coca-Cola are safe foods, but compost-grown tomatoes and raw milk are not? With legislation moving through Congress demanding that all agricultural practices be “science-based,” I believe our food system is at Wounded Knee. I do not believe that is an overstatement….

“The ultimate test of a tyrannical society or a free society is how it responds to its lunatic fringe. A strong, self-confident, free society tolerates and enjoys the fringe people who come up with zany notions. Indeed, most people later labeled geniuses were dubbed whacko by their contemporary mainstream society. So what does a culture do with weirdos who actually believe they have a right to choose what to feed their internal three-trillion-member community?
The only reason the right to food choice was not guaranteed in the Bill of Rights is because the Founders of America could not have envisioned a day when selling a glass of raw milk or homemade pickles to a neighbor would be outlawed. At the time, such a thought was as strange as levitation….
“Certainly some of this clash represents the difference between nurturing and dominating. The local heritage food movement—the raw milk movement—is all about respecting and honoring indigenous wisdom. The industrial mind-set worships techno-glitzy gadgetry and views heritage food advocates as simpletons and Luddites. Or dangerous criminals….

“The same curative properties espoused by raw milk advocates exist in a host of other food products, from homemade pound cake and potpies to pepperoni and pastured chicken. Real food is what developed our internal intestinal community. And it sure didn’t develop on food from Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations and genetically modified potatoes that are partly human and partly tomato. Long after human cleverness has run its course, compost piles will still grow the best tomatoes and grazing cows will still yield one of nature’s perfect foods: raw milk.”

You can read this entire excellent article at:
http://www.grist.org/article/2009-11-03-i-drink-raw-milk-sold-illegally-on-the-underground-market

This is a video of a person who drank raw milk tainted with campylobacter

http://www.marlerblog.com/2009/05/articles/legal-cases/the-alexandre-eco-farms-dairy-raw-milk-campylobacter-outbreak/

These are links to my previous research:

http://www.marlerblog.com/2008/06/articles/lawyer-oped/raw-milk-cons-review-of-the-peerreviewed-literature/

http://www.marlerblog.com/2008/06/articles/lawyer-oped/raw-milk-pros-review-of-the-peerreviewed-literature/

This is my response to teh Weston A. Price folks:

http://www.marlerblog.com/2009/10/articles/lawyer-oped/comparing-the-food-safety-record-of-pasteurized-and-raw-milk-products-part-3/

“Jini mentioned “competitive exclusion” in her post — that the beneficial properties in milk kill pathogens.”

Sorry for the misunderstanding, but no, I was not referring to the milk itself when I wrote about “competitive exclusion”, I was referring to the gut environment. Which ties into something else we all seem to be referring to: pathogens.

However, dependent upon the immune system and microflora of the person, the same cup of raw milk (or spinach, or factory-farmed hamburger) may be pathogenic (disease-causing) to one person, but not to another.

At any rate, I found your article very interesting and it is definitely important information that people need to know. I find it interesting that Indians (in India) always boil milk before drinking – and in general, theirs is a fairly “unsanitary” environment. The Masai in Kenya drink it raw – but their environment is not overcrowded and laden with parasites, garbage and feces.

So again, we need a full disclosure of the facts and realities surrounding raw milk, so people can make truly informed decisions. And we also need codified procedures in place so that unscrupulous (or ignorant) farmers do not produce pathogenic milk. I liked it when you wrote this in your article:

“If folks are like me and know there is a real long chance of getting a parasite from sushi or a bad bug from raw milk and consume it anyway, more power to them.”

When I lived in Tokyo, I noticed many Japanese taking worm powders from time to time. But when people talk about sushi here, they are horrified about the possibility of ingesting a worm from raw fish! God forbid that we would ever encounter any food that was not completely sterile! Ah, but that’s a whole other topic…

take care,
Jini

At the end of the day, we all want the same thing – access to safe, nutritionally-dense, healthy foods.

I agree that just because milk is raw, doesn’t mean it’s safe. And that drinking any animal’s breastmilk is a direct way of ingesting potentially really beneficial substances, OR if the animal is unhealthy, milked in unsanitary conditions, etc. then it is also a very direct way of ingesting pathogens.

I have personally visited the farm where I buy my milk and I have seen all the conditions surrounding the cow’s environment, milking, bottling, etc. These cows are also kept on grass year-round (supplemented in the winter with hay, etc.) and rigorously tested for pathogens (beyond the State requirements). The man who farms these cows is well-educated, scrupulous and his entire family down to his tiny grandkids drinks this milk.

However, when we went down to Phoenix one year, I bought raw milk there and it did not feel good to me. My son also developed loose stools. Well, hello, it’s the DESERT, there is no grass for the cows to eat. In addition, if I were to continue drinking that milk, I would want to find out what they were using as the water supply. Because the city water is incredibly chlorinated in the Phoenix area and if they had their own well, then what was the treatment and testing carried out on their well water? If the cows are not drinking healthy mineralized water, then they will not be producing very healthy milk.

So yes, I too look forward to Mark or Sally’s comments on Bill’s latest posting. And my other question is: Have raw milk farmers gotten together and established some sort of “rules” for healthy cows, milk, milking, bottling, etc? Because obviously, they cannot use the same guidelines as pasteurized milk – which, were it not pasteurized would likely kill/sicken millions!

http://www.rebuild-from-depression.com/blog/2009/10/does_raw_milk_kill_pathogens_a.html

My argument is that raw milk does not kill pathogens thoroughly, consistently, and quickly enough to ensure consumer safety. Perhaps Sally Fallon could comment on that issue as well on her way to the Marler Blog.

Amanda

http://www.marlerblog.com/2009/10/articles/lawyer-oped/comparing-the-food-safety-record-of-pasteurized-and-raw-milk-products-part-3/index.html

This is why they are treating asthmatics and allergy-ridden kids with microbe-rich African dirt and getting rid of Crohn’s symptoms with Helminth worms (from pigs).

It is not all about the microbe, it is also about susceptibility.

Over at The Complete Patient, Mark McAfee has apologized to me for misrepresenting some facts about our case, specifically regarding Chris’ video. I’ve asked Mark to contact you about removing the evidence list he sent you about the OPDC 2006 outbreak. Most of these “facts” are incorrect. I would appreciate it if you could remove it from this website, as well as Sally Fallon’s comment about my son’s video. There was nothing phony about my son’s video.

I am sure Mark McAfee has contacted you about this. I have no reason to doubt the sincerity of his apology and how important it is that only truthful facts be told about the children involved in the OPDC 2006 outbreak.

Below is the information that has been posted on TCP.

Thank You,

Mary McGonigle-Martin

http://www.thecompletepatient.com/journal/2009/9/28/cracks-in-the-foundation-new-research-reviews-suggest-anti-r.html#comments

Mark,

It pleases me to hear that you are taking all necessary steps to assure the safety of your raw milk. The fact that you were outsourcing products during the timeframe of the 2006 outbreak was quite disturbing. I hope this practice has been stopped.

Also, I do appreciate your kind words of forgiveness and healing. As you know, a settlement for our case was reached in April 2009. You posted the information below in June 2009. The majority of the facts are wrong. After 3 long years of emotional turmoil, I guess many facts got skewed a bit.

To demonstrate your sincerity and to reach a place of forgiveness and healing, this is the first place that false information needs to be removed. Please contact the owner of this blog and have fact #1, 2, 3, 7, 10, & 11 removed, as well as the very last sentence, from your evidence list. These statements are all false.

http://www.listen2yourgut.com/blog/gut/is-raw-milk-safe/

Thank you,
Mary

Some hard data from Sept 2006 Organic Pastures Dairy Raw Milk recall:

1. Only two kids were hospitalized as a result of the recall. The state had initially claimed that up to four or maybe even sex kids had been sickened. When the search for sick kids was completed…only two were ever sick.

Fact: This outbreak involved 6 kids who become ill from E.coli 0157:H7 infection. 5 of the 6 had matching genetic fingerprints. Two developed HUS, Chris Martin and Lauren Herzog, and were hospitalized for a significant period of time. The four other children did not develop a serious enough case of E.coli 0157:H7 to be hospitalized, however they were ill enough for doctors to culture a stool sample. Ill means they probably had a painful, extreme case of diarrhea that lasted 7-10 days.

2. The two sick kids recovered fully in less than four weeks and have no remaining illness or injury.

Fact: Lauren was in the hospital for 5 weeks and Chris for 8. Lauren has stage one kidney disease as a result of ingesting a pathogen. She takes medication to assist her kidneys in operating correctly.

3. The two sick kids did not have matching pathogens. One had E.coli 0157:H7 and the other did not have that pathogen and instead had Shigella.

Fact: Lauren’s stool culture tested positive for E.coli 0157:H7 and Chris’ stool samples never tested positive for any bacteria, however, it did test positive for the Shiga toxin, although this was verbally told to us in the hospital. We did not find a positive test in the medical records. In the United States, a child can’t develop diarrheal HUS without first having E.coli.

4. No Organic Pastures Dairy company (OPDC) product had any pathogens found in them.

Fact: Not at the time of the 2006 recall. The products were pulled from the shelves September 22nd. Chris and Lauren consumed OPDC raw milk between September 2nd and 4th. Approximately 18 days passed before any product was tested. There was not a product available to test with the expiration dates the Martin’s and Herzog’s had on their milk bottles. In the past, Listeria was found in his bottled cream. However, Mark doesn’t count this because it was cream that had been outsourced.

5. No milk cow at OPDC had any pathogen found in their manure tests. The three E.coli 0157:H7 positive cows were not in the milk herd and were not milk cows. They were young heifers and the pathogen that they had was a different and unrelated genetic fingerprint than the sick child. The DHS concluded that no cows at OPDC were connected by DNA fingerprint to any person or the sick child.

Fact: the cows were tested in late October and early November. The outbreak occurred in early September.

6. None of the hundreds of products tested by OPDC had any pathogens detected in them.

Fact: same as # 4

7. The two kids’ medical records both show that they had eaten raw CA Salinas spinach in the days prior to becoming ill.

Fact: Chris Martin also ate Spinach, but it was not Dole Packaged Spinach that was implicated in the recall. He ate spinach that was purchased from an open bin at the local health food store. Lauren Herzog did not eat spinach.

8. The so-called raw milk outbreak occurred during the very peak of the spinach crisis…when not one pathogen had ever been detected in six year of intensive raw milk testing by CDFA and OPDC. Statistically this a very suspect. It appeared to us that there were additional spinach genetic fingerprints that the spinach people refused to acknowledge.

Fact: Once again spinning the facts. Same as # 7

9. About 40,000 additional raw milk consumers drank the same raw milk and no other persons got sick!

Fact: Six children were sick enough to be taken to the doctors and have stool samples tested or to be placed in the hospital. This does not mean that other children or adults were not sick during this time period from OPDC raw milk. It only means it wasn’t documented.

10. Kids in the same families that drank raw milk and did not eat spinach did not get sick.

Fact: same as # 7. Also, it is very common for a family to all eat a contaminated food source and not everyone becomes ill.

11. The two kids that got sick were both given antibiotics when they were wearing bracelets that warned medical providers to not give antibiotics because an antibiotic-resistant pathogen was suspected. Doctors screwed up and gave huge dosages of antibiotics to these kids and within hours they nearly died.

Fact: This is a complete fabrication. This did not happen and it is not documented in the medical records. It was an idea that we had after the fact. This idea was document in a newspaper article. http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2006/11/26/news/californian/20_59_3711_25_06.txt

The Martins said they are also in the process of meeting with a few hospital ombudsmen to make sure that what happened to Chris does not happen to another child.

They said that if the first doctor Chris saw when he went into the hospital on the first night would have put a wristband on him noting that he should not receive a dose of antibiotics, then the second doctor may not have administered the dose that sent Chris spiraling into trauma.

“All they needed was one little wristband,” Mary said.

12. The state gave OPDC their raw milk permit back 10 days after it was suspended. The findings concluded that pathogens could not be found at OPDC or in any of our products.

Fact: Same as # 4

What I find outrageous…is this…three people died in Massachusetts in 2007 from perfectly pasteurized milk…yet it is hardly news. We are blamed with two illnesses, which fully recover, and we are huge news…there is something wrong about this.

Fact: Both children did not fully recover. Lauren Herzog has stage one kidney disease. The Massachusetts story was big news and I’m sure the families are suing the dairy. What made the OPDC outbreak such a big deal was that two children almost died and they happened to be at the same hospital.

- Mark McAfee