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I recently came across a post on a Quackwatch-type of blog where the author had posted my warning letter letter about ingesting bacterial soil organisms – also known as HSO’s, SO’s, SBO’s, or probiotics:

http://quackfiles.blogspot.com/2005/05/primal-defense-hso-probiotics-warning.html

“Along with a book I ordered called “The IBD Remission Diet” by Jini Patel Thompson, came a page inserted later by the author that essentially withdrew her prior recommendation of Primal Defense. Horrified, I searched the Internet and could only find glowing testimonials (most of which eventually stemmed from the Garden of Life company’s own marketing.) I could find nothing from a scientific or unbiased source. The inserted warning is frightening. Here it is:

“On Page 108 of the IBD remission diet, I suggest that readers may want to try a product called Primal Defense after they’ve been completely healed for 3-5 months. I learned of this product from numerous readers who wrote in to let me know how well it’s worked for them. Since I couldn’t try the product myself (I’ve been pregnant or breastfeeding for four years and counting,) I questioned numerous respected naturopaths, microbiology professors and gastroenterologists for their opinion on the product and all said it looked fine.

However, since meeting the founder and president of Natren Inc. (top quality pro-biotic manufacturer,) Natasha Trenev, I must change my opinion of bacterial soil organisms. Natasha is a world renowned expert on microorganisms and maintains one of the largest research libraries on that topic in the world. She has sent me an entire CD ROM of articles, research and clinical data and other scientific studies, (most done outside of North America,) outlining why it is not safe to consume bacterial soil organisms (like those contained in Primal Defense and numerous other products.)

To summarize the research briefly, soil organisms (SO) are spore formers, so they make make good competitors for yeast, fungus and other pathogens. This is why so many people taking soil organisms will initially experience very favorable results. However these spores are are extremely difficult to kill, surviving sterilants, disinfectants, acceleration forces, heat, pressure, radiation and many antibiotics. Strong antibiotics — like Vancomycin — can suppress certain spores. Spores are so persistent in the intestines that another round of germination may occur after the the drug is stopped. Soil organisms can also adapt loose genetic material and incorporate it into their cellular structure – the ramifications of which are yet unknown. Various soil organisms can also produce harmful peptides, affecting hemoglobin in the blood. It’s important to keep in mind that virtually all antibiotic drugs were were initially developed from soil organisms and as antibiotics become more potent, they cause more damage to the host, not just in the immediate gut environment, but systematically as well.

In the EU (European Union) the use of soil organisms in animal feed is being stringently controlled and questioned at this time. There are simply too many questions and unknowns to sanction the use of soil organisms for human consumption and one can certainly cannot qualify them as safe at this time.

I’m very sorry for any confusion this may have caused you. To be honest, this is the very first time I’ve recommended a product that I’ve not tried and tested exclusively myself — I admit I was swayed by so many good recommendations from readers. Rest assured that I will not do so again!

My sincerest apologies,
Jini Patel Thompson
July 2003″

There were many comments in response to this blog post, some of them claimed that the information from Natasha Trenev was not valid, as Natren is a competitor to Primal Defense. However, when I tried to post my comment with the research references, it would not accept it as there are too many web links in it and it’s too long. So, I’m posting it here instead!

I hear the argument about Natren being a competitor to Primal Defense. But that’s also forgetting a simple point: Wouldn’t it be simpler for Natasha to produce her own soil organism product, rather than spend her time and energy speaking out against soil organisms? When you own your own manufacturing plant, diversifying your product line is a breeze and costs very little.

Hmmm…could it be she’s actually concerned about people’s health? Likewise, her insistence that viable probiotics need to be refrigerated at all stages (like yoghurt). Wouldn’t it be a whole lot easier for her to just offer a “shelf-stable” line of probiotics? When you already have millions of customers worldwide, surely this would make more financial sense?

Sure it would! But that’s my point. Natasha Trenev is one of the pioneers of the alternative health field and one of the minority who have not sold out their integrity for money.

She maintains one of the largest libraries on microorganism research in the world, with a full-time librarian. She also has a PhD Microbiologist on full-time staff – who often works with California hospitals to set up and implement clinical trials of probiotics.

Neither of these activities are cheap, but they are vital to understanding and staying at the forefront of this field that is absolutely rife with misinformation.

Anyway, getting back to the soil organisms – here is an extensive list of references (from hard science sources) that illustrate WHY ingesting soil organisms is experimental at the very least, and potentially dangerous. This list was compiled back in 2004, so while most of the web links are still active – if any of them no longer link properly, then you can still find the article by searching on the title/author.

Regarding the “alternative vs. allopathic sources” debate. Both have their pros and cons and my solution is to research and talk to both; with the ultimate trump over any research or study being my own body wisdom and experience. My best to all of you in your Healing Journey.

Soil organisms: Web links for further research information

Agerholm JS, Jensen HE, Jensen NE. Experimental infection in mice with Bacillus licheniformis.
Zentralbl Veterinarmed B. 1995 Jun;42(4):247-56.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8546023

Agerholm JS, Jensen NE, Giese SB, Jensen HE. A preliminary study on the pathogenicity of Bacillus licheniformis bacteria in immunodepressed mice. APMIS. 1997 Jan;105(1):48-54.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9063501

Agerholm JS, Jensen NE, Dantzer V, Jensen HE, Aarestrup FM. Experimental infection of pregnant cows with Bacillus licheniformis bacteria. Vet Pathol 1999 36: 191-201.

Banerjee C, Bustamante CI, Wharton R., Talley E., Wade JC. Bacillus infections in patients with cancer. Arch Intern Med 1988 Aug;148(8):1769-74
http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/gca?allch=&SEARCHID=1079131844958_2454&AUTHOR1=banerjee&AUTHOR2=wharton&TITLEABSTRACT=cancer&JOURNALCODE=&FIRSTINDEX=0&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=1&gca=archinte%3B148%2F8%2F1769

Bisset KA, Bartlett R. The isolation and characters of L-forms and reversions of Bacillus licheniformis var. Endoparasiticus (Benedek) associated with the erythrocytes of clinically normal persons. J. Med. Microbiol. 1978 11: 335-349.
http://jmm.sgmjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/11/3/335?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&author1=bisset&titleabstract=reversions&searchid=1079128426202_1300&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&fdate=1/1/1978&tdate=9/30/1978&journalcode=medmicro

Blue SR, Singh VR, Saubolle MA. Bacillus licheniformis bacteremia: five cases associated with indwelling central venous catheters. Clin Infect Dis. 1995 Mar;20(3):629-33.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=7756487

Department of Veterans Affairs, Veterans Health Organization. Evaluation of veterans involved in the Project SHAD tests – Autumn Gold, Copper Head, Shady Grove and others for possible occupatioanl health exposures. Dec 31, 2001. IL 10-2001-015. http://www.va.gov/shad/docs/IL_2001-015.pdf

European Commission, Health & Consumer Protection Dorectorate-General. Opinion on the use of certain micro-organisms as additives in feedingstuffs. Expressed 26 September 1997, updated 25 April 2003.
http://europa.eu.int/comm/food/fs/sc/scan/out93_en.pdf

Falcone R. Why isn’t the bacterial cause of cancer accepted?
http://members.aol.com/cabacteria/why.html

Guinebretiere MH, Berge O, Normand P, Morris C, Carlin F, Nguyen-The C. Identification of Bacteria in Pasteurized Zucchini Purées Stored at Different Temperatures and Comparison with Those Found in Other Pasteurized Vegetable Purées. Appl. Envir. Microbiol. 2001 67: 4520-4530. http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/67/10/4520?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&author1=normand&author2=morris&searchid=1078358166224_9558&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&fdate=1/1/2001&tdate=12/31/2001&search_url=http%3A%2F%2Fjournals.asm.org%2Fcgi%2Fsearch&journalcode=aem

Hoa NT, Baccigalupi L, et al, Characteriazation of Bacillus Species Used for Oral Bacteriotherapy and Bacterioprophylaxis of Gastrointestinal Disorders. Appl Environ Microbiol 2000;66(12):5241-5247
http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/66/12/5241?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&searchid=1078953701794_9704&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&volume=66&firstpage=5241&search_url=http%3A%2F%2Fjournals.asm.org%2Fcgi%2Fsearch&journalcode=aem

Hoa TT, Duc LH, Isticato R, Baccigalupi L, Ricca E, Van PH, Cutting SM. Fate and dessemination of Bacillus subtilit spores in a murine model. Appl Environ Microbiol 2001 Sep;67(9):3819-23 http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/67/9/3819?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&author2=Hoa&titleabstract=Bacillus+subtilus&searchid=1078439898893_8257&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&fdate=9/1/2001&tdate=9/30/2001&search_url=http%3A%2F%2Fjournals.asm.org%2Fcgi%2Fsearch

Kniehl E, Becker A, Forster DH. Pseudo-outbreak of toxigenic Bacillus cereus isolated from stools of three patients with diarrhoea after oral administration of a probiotic medication. Journal of Hospital infection. 2003;55(1):33-8.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WJP-4997NMX-1&_user=10&_handle=B-WA-A-A-AD-MsSAYZW-UUA-AUYACYEUAW-AUDEAZEYAW-WEVZCWVBC-AD-U&_fmt=summary&_coverDate=09%2F30%2F2003&_rdoc=6&_orig=browse&_srch=%23toc%236884%232003%23999449998%23453131!&_cdi=6884&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=40524dea3c378afb5c9483711a6f023a

Logan NA. Bacillus species of medical and veterinary importance. J Med Microbiol. 1988 Mar;25(3):157-65.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3279213&dopt=Abstract&itool=iconnoabstr

Matsumoto S, Suenaga H, Naito K, Sawazaki M, Hiramatsu T, Agata N. Management of suspected nosocomial infection: an audit of 19 hospitalized patients with septicemia caused by Bacillus species. Jpn J Infect Dis. 2000 Oct;53(5):196-202.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11135704

Mikkola R, Kolari M, Andersson MA, Helin J, Salkinoja-Salonen MS. Toxic lactonic lipopeptide from food poisoning isolates of Bacillus licheniformis.
Eur J Biochem. 2000 Jul;267(13):4068-74.

Oggioni MR, Pozzi G, Valensin PE, Galieni P, Bigazzi C. Recurrent Septicemia in an Immunocompromised Patient Due to Probiotic Strains of Bacillus subtilis. J. Clin. Microbiol. 1998 36: 325-326.

Pease P. Identification of bacteria from blood and joint fluids of human subjects as Bacillus licheniformis. Ann Rheum Dis 1974 33: 67-69.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=4206905

Richard V, Van der Auwera P, Snoeck R, Daneau D, Meunier F. Nosocomial bacteremia caused by Bacillus species. Eur J Clin Microbiol Infect Dis. 1988 Dec;7(6):783-5.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=3145864

Rowan NJ, Deans K, Anderson JG, Gemmell CG, Hunter IS, and Chaithong T. Putative Virulence Factor Expression by Clinical and Food Isolates of Bacillus spp. after Growth in Reconstituted Infant Milk Formulae. Appl. Envir. Microbiol. 2001 67: 3873-3881.
http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/67/9/3873?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&author1=rowan+&author2=deans&searchid=1078358009504_9533&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&fdate=8/1/2001&tdate=10/31/2001&search_url=http%3A%2F%2Fjournals.asm.org%2Fcgi%2Fsearch&journalcode=aem

Rowan NJ, Caldow G, Gemmell CG, Hunter IS. Production of Diarrheal Enterotoxins and Other Potential Virulence Factors by Veterinary Isolates of Bacillus Species Associated with Nongastrointestinal Infection. Appl. Envir. Microbiol. 2003 69: 2372-2376. http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/69/4/2372?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&author1=rowan&titleabstract=factors&searchid=1078357471677_9484&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&fdate=1/1/2003&tdate=6/30/2003&search_url=http%3A%2F%2Fjournals.asm.org%2Fcgi%2Fsearch&journalcode=aem

Sagripanti J.-L., Bonifacino A.. Bacterial Spores Survive Treatment with Commercial Sterilants and Disinfectants. Appl Environ Micorbiol 1999;65(9):4255
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Salkinoja-Salonen MS, Vuorio R, Andersson MA, Kämpfer P, Andersson MC, Honkanen-Buzalski T, Scoging AC. Toxigenic Strains of Bacillus licheniformis Related to Food Poisoning. Appl. Envir. Microbiol. 1999 65: 4637-4645.

Santini F, Borghetti V, Amalfitano G, Mazzucco A. Bacillus licheniformis prosthetic aortic valve endocarditis. J. Clin. Microbiol. 1995 33: 3070-3073.
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Spinosa MR, Wallet F. et al. The Trouble in Tracing Opportunistic Pathogens: Cholangitis due to Bacillus in a French Hospital Caused by a Strain Related to an Italian Probiotic? Microbial Ecology in Health and Disease. 2000;12(2):99-101.
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Tuazon CU, Murray HW, Levy C, Solny MN, Curtin JA, Sheagren JN. Serious infections from Bacillus sp. JAMA. 1979 Mar 16;241(11):1137-40.
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  1. Ota Said,

    Is New Chapter’s Host Defense product considered a bacterial soil organism?

  2. JINI Said,

    No, it is a mushroom extract product.

    It does not contain any bacteria.

  3. Leah Sparks Said,

    Are the Natren products, specifically Healthy Trinity and Life Start 2, missing any necessary strains of pro-biotics? Primal Defense Ultra lists so many, and there are so few in the Natren products. Please explain.

  4. Leah Sparks Said,

    What are the advantages/disadvantages of both Seagate olive leaf extract versus wild oregano oil?

  5. JINI Said,

    Hi Leah,

    Natren probiotics contain only transient (non-spore forming) food-based probiotics. And no they do not contain every species of probiotic found in the human gut – that would be thousands! They just contain the main species that have been found to be the most beneficial in clinical trials, and have also been consumed by humans for thousands of years. So they have a long safety record.

    Primal Defense contain soil-based organisms, which have no long-term record of safety for human consumption at this time.

    Some people find olive leaf is more palatable than wild oregano. However, is you know the easy way to take it, then wild oregano is actually easier to take. Here’s my video showing the easy, no-burning method:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ryheQSdYHc

    In terms of strength or efficacy – I don’t know, there have been no comparison studies done that I know of.

    take care,
    Jini

  6. What Is Lactobacillus sporogenes? | Listen To Your Gut Said,

    [...] Milk-cultured bacteria do not form spores and they do not remain permanently in your gut – this is why you have to keep consuming yoghurt, kefir, etc. daily. But soil bacteria ALL form spores and these spores remain in your gut and cannot be eradicated by any means identified to date. For a full outline of the possible dangers of consuming bacterial soil organisms, see my blog post about soil organisms. [...]

  7. Karin Shainman Said,

    Would Primal Defense be an acceptable/advantageous probiotic for dogs, and how should it be given?

  8. JINI Said,

    Bacterial Soil Organisms (which Primal Defense contains) are in experimental trials with animals in Europe – but they are being strictly regulated. Perhaps there are some results published by now – you would have to do an internet check.

    Common sense: Yes, in the wild, dogs would eat their raw meat as it lays on the ground and therefore would ingest some soil organisms – but would it be anywhere near the massive amounts contained in soil organism capsules? No.

    The healthiest thing you can do for your dog is to give it a predominantly raw food diet. And add fresh garlic directly to the food, both for immune defense and to ward off fleas. Start with a little bit (as many animals don’t like the taste) and then gradually build up to 1/4 tsp per 10 pounds of body weight.

  9. mihal Said,

    Hi,

    Interesting article [and site-subbed btw].

    Could I ask about Solgar probiotics ?..or rather your opinion on the quality if thats alright ?..as I’ve never heard of Primal Defense- a USA product? , Solgar seems to be the main shelf dweller in the UK at least-for probiotics and vitamins etc..also they are suitably high priced so one would ‘hope’ they are of good quality.

    hope to hear from you soon.

    Mihal

  10. JINI Said,

    Hi Mihal – ok, you’ve gotta tell me, what does “site-subbed” mean?

    Re. the probiotics, if you go to this post of mine and sign-up for the free ebook/report, in there I give you the Selection Criteria for therapeutic-grade probiotics (then you will be able to assess any probiotic you encounter:

    http://www.listen2yourgut.com/blog/gut/wild-oregano-oil-protocol-and-probiotic-enema/

    take care,
    Jini

  11. mihal Said,

    hehe, I meant I have subscribed to the site, as in yours you know :)

    Ok have read quite a large amount of info thus far and get the jist of it..guess I really wanted the opinion of a more experienced person .

    I’ll be nipping off to the post you mention.
    best
    ~m